Interview
with Hanne Blank
June 22, 2001 10:30 a.m.
Melissa:
As a trained musician, historian and writer, how did you become involved
with fat activism and sexuality education?
Hanne: Well, not
only have I been a musician, historian and writer, I've always been a fat person.
I grew up fat, which meant that I grew up with all of the baggage and all of
the myths about fat people. I was also very interested in sex, as many people
are, when I was a teenager and I started to learn about it when I was quite
young. My dad gave me some opportunities to read about
sexuality at an age when most
of the kids that I knew didn't know much about sex education. When I was about
15 or 16 years old I started to do some peer outreach type things and also
just a lot of sort of on-the-streets, grass-roots, in my
school outreach to students,
answering questions.
I started really doing that kind of stuff and it's always been a part of
my life. There's never been a large chunk of my life when I haven't really
been
doing
some sort of sexuality advocacy work. The fat stuff really comes into that
because a lot of people's fears, worries, and concerns about their sex
lives are really
not about sex. They're really about concerns people have about themselves,
like "Am I good enough?" or "Am I thin enough?" So all of
that body image stuff is really part and parcel of doing sexuality-related
work.
I was able to speak out about these issues at such a young age partly because
my father was an anthropologist and my mother teaches middle school. So
it was the combination of parents who were both very outspoken; they're
both educators
and not really abashed about speaking to people about whatever it happens
to be. That's very much part of what my family does.
M:
It sounds like you got a very positive influence from your family. But
have you always had such a positive view of your body and sexuality even
despite the messages
from the popular culture?
H: No. I think
that most people who grow up fat-like people of color who are growing
up in a white dominant culture and people
who are disabled who
grow up in an ablist culture-you
grow up and you do internalize a lot of those messages. It does take
time and work to get to a point when you
can feel at peace with your body, you can
feel
good about who you are, what you look like, and what your body can and
can't do.
I don't think that there's any secret way to escape the negative messages,
unfortunately. Our culture's just too pervasive. And even for me it's
still very pervasive.
Most days are fine for me-most of the time I feel like life is cool
and I do what I want and people can either take me or leave me. But
every
so often something
will happen that's just really devastating. Last summer I was in a
small town in western Massachusetts with my partner who is half-Chinese.
This
Jeep full
of boys drove past us and they were all yelling and screaming and they
threw bottles at us. We looked at each other just stunned and we had
actually no idea
whether they were doing this because I was fat or because my lover
is part Chinese. We were really quite upset for a couple hours and
would
have been no matter which
one it was.
M: You seem to
really have a good concept of how fat discrimination relates to lots of other
types of oppression. I noticed that in your book big big love when you discussed
size acceptance as a social justice issue. I guess what happened to you and your
lover is a pretty good example of how it relates to other forms of oppression.
H:
Yeah, it really
is. There is a lot of sort of generalized xenophobia, or fear of
people who
are different
in our culture.
This means that anyone who
isn't exactly like you becomes
a problem a lot of the time. Unfortunately, that really does exist
and
it means that anyone who
is physically
different and visibly different
ends up being
a target. That goes if you are visibly queer
or if you're
engaging in
some sort
of behavior that makes you visibly queer. It also goes if you're
transgender,
if you're fat, if you're a person of color, if you're disabled in
some way or
even if your
body is just
different. There are a lot
of ways that people can
have different bodies that aren't necessarily disabilities.
M:
I think that a lot of us by existing in this society say things
everyday that contribute to negative attitudes about people of
size and anyone whose body is
different from our own. What are some everyday ways that you think
people can lessen sizism and
fatphobia?
H: Well, there
are some very simple things that you can do. First-be nice to fat
people. It is very simple.
Just to intentionally
be nice to other fat people creates
a little ripple effect.
It could be as little as
letting
someone make a left-turn in front
of me or whatever it happens to be. It means that for a change that
fat person who I let turn
left in front of me
just got treated preferentially. Or
they got treated well, instead
of having someone honk
at them,
mutter fat slurs and cut
them off, which is what happens altogether too often. Little things
like that can make a big
difference.
A second thing that can make a big difference
is something that most people don't
think about-don't discuss weight and
food issues in public.
People constantly
obsessing about the calorie count or how fat it's going to make them
or how they shouldn't eat certain foods is all sort of the body obsession
of our culture,
that we are trained to accept that that kind of obsessiveness is
normal. This kind of talk can really
be hurtful, not just to fat people,
but
to a lot of people
who have trouble with body image issues and people with eating disorder
issues as well. There are a lot of thin people who have very similar
issues around food
as fat people do. You don't know who they are and it's really not
a visible thing. You really don't know
when you're going to make a comment
that
could trigger
some recovering bulimic to go and throw up whatever she just ate.
It's that kind of insidious subtle damage
that you could do just by running
your mouth about
something that really isn't all that important. I encourage people
not to have that kind of negative discussion
about food and calories and
weight in public.
Similarly, a third thing that a lot of people do is making comments
about how people look in their clothes. People will say things
like "I can't believe she's
wearing that dress, it makes her butt look so fat." I have a
T-shirt that says "DO
I LOOK FAT IN THIS?" Of course I look fat in no matter what I
wear because I am fat. The point of the T-shirt is-Why Ask? And
why
make a point of
it? Why
does that matter? Of course the reason why it really matters
is that people use it as a superiority thing and it can be really
hurtful.
If I can say
so-and-so's butt looks fat in that dress then it makes me feel
better because my butt obviously
doesn't look fat.
There really is a big hierarchy of size. Another thing you can
do actually to combat size oppression is to treat people of all
sizes
the same.
I think that
a lot of people and fat activists find that there is sort of
a cut-off, an upper limit where they stop thinking of fat people
as "normal." It's
like it's ok to be fat unless you're bigger than such and such
size or weight.
It's like
saying
it's ok to be black unless you're darker than such and such color.
It really makes a lot of difference in your own mind if you just
remember that people
are people and their size really doesn't change that. Getting
over your own internalized
fatphobia is a big deal and it's very hard work.
M:
I think those are really great suggestions. These tips seem
like they would work not just in being considerate of other
people. If people make these changes in
themselves, do you find that their own attitudes also adjust?
H:
Instantly, yeah. A lot of it is
internal work. You'd be surprised
how much discipline
it takes to learn how to not talk
about the calorie count of food,
especially
if you're
a woman, because we get trained to do that and it's really
thorough training.
How many times have
you been in a restaurant
and seen a man eating
lunch with a woman and the woman is eating a salad and the
man is eating a
hamburger? That
is a kind of gendered behavior, as well as body-oppressive
behavior. Maybe she's
eating the salad because
she actually really
wants to
eat a salad, but chances
are good that she's eating that salad a) because women are
supposed to like lighter,
delicate foods or
b) because she's watching
her
weight.
When you start looking
at it that way it really makes you second-guess a lot of things.
A friend of mine who recently came out as bisexual, was saying "You
know when you come out as bisexual all of a sudden you have
to say, 'Well, I
could date
this person because they're a guy and it's kind of easier
when you date a guy because that's kind of what society expects
you
to do. But
you have
to
think;
well do I really want to date a guy right now? Or do I want
to date a woman right now?'"
M: It seems like
in our culture we are trained based on gender how to eat just like we are trained
on how and with whom to be sexual. You described in big big love, the 'body beautiful
image' of gay male culture, the ways that fat can impact positively or negatively
on a transgender person's ability to pass and some other specifically-LGBT issues.
What are some ways that you see body image as impacting LGBT persons specifically?
H:
Well I think one of the biggest things
is
a
woman's
issue, as many fat-related issues
are.
Fat women, whether or not they are lesbians, are assumed
by
many
people
to be lesbians because "they're too fat to get a man." To
some of us that's no big deal, but
this can be offensive to any
type of
woman.
If somebody
assumes I'm
a lesbian then that's their problem because the reality
is actually much weirder than
that
(laughs). Assuming
that someone's
weight, someone's size has a
role to play in their sexual
identification is really, really
misguided and really, really
screwed
up and
I think very insulting
no matter which side of the
scale you stand on.
The myths about fat people tie into
some myths about queer people. One
is that no
one would
choose to
be queer if they could get a heterosexual
partner, which
as we all know is not how it works. (laughs) Another thing
that happens with men is a certain
degree of body-consciousness
and physical beauty where men are
assumed to be queer. If a guy is a very pretty, very well-dressed,
gym-toned guy, some people assume he's
gay, which means that a lot of people
just don't even imagine that fat guys
or guys
who
don't fit that stereotype could be
gay. Again you're putting on the blinders
because of what you assume
you know about somebody because of
their body.
M: In line with
the myths that people hold, you mentioned in Big Big Love the myth that fat people
can't, or don't, get HIV/AIDS and STIs and I guess that goes along with the
myth that fat people don't have sex or date. What is some advice that you would
give young fat people to deal with these myths or other forms of discrimination
that they might encounter while seeking sexual health care?
H:
One of the things that I would
recommend,
this
is
something
that
I
have
been
doing
for several
years now. When I go to see a new doctor I write a
letter
a
page-long
letter, that
basically
says "Hi, I am a fat person, I know that I am a fat person. Please
do not spend the small amount of time that I have in your office telling me that
I am a fat person. I am here to talk to you about a specific health issue that
I have. This is what the issue is… If there are
ways in which my weight has a real bearing on this
problem,
then I am
happy to
talk about
it."
If you're there for something like an STI test, it shouldn't
matter if you weight 520 pounds or 205 pounds or 100
pounds. Similarly for
any
kind of gynecological
care, vaginas and ovaries and things like that do not
become some weird thing if somebody gets fat. It's not
any more
difficult, strange,
weird
or whatever
to do that kind of exam on somebody if they're fat. It
really should not be made into an issue. Also take a
copy of the letter
into the
exam with you because
they may or may not have had a chance to read it before.
Another really good thing that you can do is to take
along a patient advocate, which is to take along a
friend who
will go into the examination
room with you.
Most doctors will be on much better behavior about
fat issues-as well as about queer issues-if there's
another
person in the
room. Doctors
should generally,
with a few exceptions like x-rays, be able to allow
you to have a patient advocate in the room. Usually
your
patient advocate
will
sit in the corner
and kind of
out of the way, just to be there and to give you some
support and kind of just to observe and make sure that
things go
the way they're
supposed
to go. I find
that it really helps a lot for the kind of exams that
tend to make people feel very vulnerable, like gynecological
exams.
M:
I have another question on body image and sexual health. How do you think a person's
own body image relates to their choices on sexual health?
H:
Woah. That's quite a can of worms.
In general
the worse
your
self-image
and your
self-confidence, then the less prone you're going
to be to pursue really
good health
care. In
terms of
what you
do for yourself,
people who
really
believe "well it doesn't
matter, I'm fat, nobody likes me, I'm not worth anything," are
not, in general, going to be as likely to be careful
and protect their health.
That's true
of people who feel bad about themselves because they're
gay or because they're not white or because they're
not rich.
There
are a lot of things
that can
cause
that
kind of loss of self-esteem, or lack of self-esteem
and self-confidence. Weight is certainly a biggie.
You only have one body and it doesn't really matter
that it might not be exactly what you want it to
be and it
might not
look exactly
how you
want it to look.
You still need to figure out a way that you can motivate
yourself to take care of that body. It's the only
one you've got and
waiting for
it to change is a
really self-defeating thing. Waiting until you miraculously
lose that 100 pounds or whatever it is so that you'll
feel ok having a
doctor see
you naked, might
take long enough for you to get breast cancer or
for you to go from an early detection of an HIV infection
to having
AIDS.
Don't wait.
There
is no reason
to put off taking care of yourself.
M:
I think that there's a lot of pressure from peers
to have a " look" and that
in the queer community this pressure can be strong.
You've said that your self-proclaimed image of "high
femme" or "lipstick femme" has not been universally
accepted in either the queer or straight community.
How were you able to find your own "look" or "image" and
not conform to the pressures of those around you?
H:
Well, for me
it's kind of a funny thing. I
think that everybody
does a lot of experimenting
and
a lot of playing with different
things-we
try
to conform with this
and try to conform with
that.
It's really a process of elimination,
finding what works
for you and what doesn't work for you. I think that
the
important thing to remember
is that it's
never all or nothing. Maybe you feel
more comfortable wearing something
else or maybe you think you look better wearing something
else. You might
try looking lots of
different
ways before you
come up with something
that really feels comfortable or
what really feels comfortable may
be a
little of this and a little of
that. When
it
becomes stagnant, then it's
just a tyrannical thing
that rules your life with this arbitrary standard
anyway.
That's very unpleasant. I
would find it
very, very
off-putting to be unable to wear
something if
it's ten minutes out of fashion.
M: I know that
you have touched on this in some of your other answers, but can you give us any
more suggestions for people of all sizes to enhance their own image and appreciation
of their body?
H:
There
are
many things
that anyone
can do to enhance
their own body
confidence.
This is what
I prefer
to
call
it
because I find
that there's
a
lot
of
strength
and
a
lot of self-esteem
that comes from
being
confident
that
your
body
can
do
certain
things and do
them well. One
of the best things
is to figure
out a
couple
of activities
that your body does really well with and that your
body
is
able
to
do.
For
me,
for
instance
I
am
not fast, but
I have
an
immense
amount of stamina.
I can walk and
keep going, I
can carry boxes
of books all
day
and
I can
do
slow, moderate-type
stuff all day long and be just fine. For me, knowing
that I
can
do
that, and doing
that
kind
of
activity, really
increases
my
confidence in
my body
because I know
that my body
is very dependable
in doing that.
M: Really in some
ways it sounds like it's getting beyond just the physical body and learning what
your body can do.
H:
Absolutely. I think that that
is really, really
important
that you
can
have trust
and
faith in
your body
and
its abilities
and you
know what
it can do
and you
know what
it can do for
you. It's
more important
for me to know
that I can swim a mile
than it is that I can't run fast. I get a lot of
satisfaction
out
of knowing
that I can
depend on
my body
to do that and do it
really well.
A lot of
times it
helps
if you get together
other
people
who are
friends
of yours
and whose
bodies may
not all
be near
the "norm" or
just a
group of people
who you really
trust and do some
of those things
and do
it in a non-competitive
way. Have
it be about hanging out and doing fun stuff and being
with people that you enjoy.
Try a lot of different things, like play Frisbee,
go swimming, or go on
a hike. By making it a social thing that helps, especially
if you're with people
you
know and you trust.
M:
I read that you were co-authoring with Heather Corinna, a book called Vixen:
Sex Sense for Real World Grrls. Can you tell us more about that?
H:
A lot of it is
based on the work
that we do at www.scarleteen.com.
We are trying to put together a sex-positive book
on sexuality,
which means that we acknowledge
that sex can
be a really positive
force in people's lives. Part
of what can make is positive is education and knowing
what's
going on. With knowledge follows
a lot more control
and a lot more
ability to make decisions. Most of
the sexuality-related and sex-education books that
we've
seen
for young adults and for teenagers
don't talk about
pleasure at all. The tendency
is in sex education
to spend the most time talking about things that
can cause,
or are perceived as the causes
of problems. In North American
sex
education has meant that focus
has traditionally been on heterosexual
penis and
vagina sex. People have just
as many problems and potential complications with
other
kinds of sex. Since the abstinence-only
sex education
shift in 1996, research
has shown
a certain drop
in teen pregnancy, which may or may not be co-related
to the sex
education. There also has been a huge increase in
STIs
that are transmitted in
other ways than
penis and vagina sex. There has been a huge rise
in sexually
transmitted
infections that occur in people's
throats for instance,
like syphilis, gonorrhea and chlamydia.
Where you find people getting infected with one type
of STI
from unprotected
oral sex, there
is a very statistically significant chance
that there
may also be HIV going around.
For a lot of people, honestly, I think that not having
partnered sex until you're ready to deal with the
consequences and
ready to deal
with all of
the fall-out
is probably the best idea. Do I think that it's realistic
to tell people to do that in most cases? No, I don't.
Because if that were
the case,
I know plenty
of people who are in their thirties and forties and
still aren't
ready to deal with all of that stuff. But they need
the information anyway.
People have a
lot
of fears and there isn't much out there, especially
for teens and young adults,
to answer those fears. This book is to say, "Yes,
teenagers do actually need to hear this stuff."
MORE
INFORMATION >>
Body
Image :: Hanne Blank :: Myths & Facts :: Body
Positive :: Eating
Disorders :: HIV-Positive Youth :: Resources
 Send this page to a friend >>
|
